Wolverine Week-11-in-Review: X-Men Noir, Astonishing Tales, Marvel Spotlight
Wolverine appeared in only two titles this past week (March 11, 2009).
But he was the centerpiece and editorial subject of Marvel Spotlight: Wolverine that begins with an absolute must-read interview with Daniel Way.
Early on, Way admits, “[Wolverine] is almost a war criminal. And if we had lost WWII, he would have been a war criminal.”
And here is where Daniel Way and I differ.
Morally, Wolverine is a war criminal, period.
I understand his legal distinction, but for me it is all about what one does when no one is looking. Not merely what one can prove.
And for me, it is for exactly that reason that I do not like ‘Wolverine: Origins’.
I, for one, do not believe it was necessary to take Wolverine to these evil depths in order to show off his redemption.
As he notes at the end of the interview, “…Sometimes I’ve done things that have pissed off fans to the extreme, but I’ve gotten their heart pumpin’ again. ‘I made ya look.’ And, that was the point.”
And here I thought it was to make fans say, “Wow.”
Jason Aaron and Christopher Yost are also interviewed and there are some excellent pieces on Barry Windor-Smith’s ‘Weapon X’, ‘First Class’ and ‘Origin’.
Moving onto the reviews themselves…
X-Men Noir #4 (preview)
“The Mutant Hunter”
Writer: Fred Van Lente
Artist: Dennis Calero
I strongly recommend a thorough reread of the first three issues before embarking on this series finale.
Wolverine does appear, but merely plays a supporting role this time around…
Astonishing Tales #2 (preview)
“The Hard Way”
Writer: C.B. Cebulski
Penciler: Kenneth Rocafort
More over-the-top posturing for Wolverine and the Punisher, and the introduction of “Kimora: Agent of the Mysterious Organization Known as The Facility” whose enormous breasts threaten to burst through the fabric of her low-cut uniform.
So depending on your viewpoint, this is either an incredible waste of your money or the greatest comic book of all time…
What do you think? Feel free to share your opinion in the comments below OR join in on the fun in the Wolverine Files Forums…
Hmm, well I never interpreted it as he enjoys ending lives except perhaps with the really evil bastards. I always read it as he enjoys the thrill of combat and chase etc like a hunter or a sportsperson would. If he grinned before I fight that is how I would take it. Interesting factoid about the “he didnt kill the guards” but come on….. really….. he did. Any mention later otherwise was clearly ass-covering politically motivated bullshit from the higher ups at marvel. And I think there is a difference even if he enjoys figthing that doenst make him like… Read more »
Hey Toby… nice to see you around! I mentioned this earlier, but while Wolverine did kill the guard in the Savage Land and the guards at the Hellfire Club, Jim Shooter as Editor-in-Chief actually proclaimed that Wolverine had not killed anyone. If he had, he would have to be put on trial and sent to jail. That is why several Hellfire Club guards returned later (Cole was one), and Shooter even stated that if he had to, he would show the Savage Land guard still alive. This is not to say he didn’t kill later (or earlier chronoglogically), but at… Read more »
Cat: It is your right to dislike or enjoy a storyline, that’s all personal preference. However simply ignoring the storyline and not acknowledging its existence does not make it any less of a reality. No more than how ignoring a disease will not make it go away. There are a number of things to consider as well. First of all, Wolverine wasn’t really in control during most of his pre-X-Men life. He was being controlled, conditioned, and just generally manipulated throughout. A lot of the evil things he has done aren’t really his fault. The fact that he knows this… Read more »
“It’s both a strong sentiment and a cowards reasoning. As more noble heroes find a way to do both without murdering.” I’m sorry but while the rest of you post is very good this statment is provable BS. Some enemies need to be killed, this is evidenced by people like spider-man who doesnt kill goes through this cycle. 1. Dress up in a high profile persona, attack villians and call them names. 2. Act shocked when they kill you family. 3. Put them in jail. 4. they escape 2 and a half seconds later. REPEAT THE ABOVE FOR EVER. Wolverine… Read more »
This will teach me to break my vow I was never going to comment on another Wolverine Origins bit, lol. I’ll start by saying I know ignoring it doesn’t mean it’s any less canon, I leave that to other writers in Marvel, I’m just saying I dislike it. That aside, I’m not 100% sure why. I was really excited when I saw my library had preordered Wolverine Origins Saviour Paperback, as I love reading about Wolverine’s time in Team X. And the art was interesting and the story line had a lot of potential, but…It just missed something and I… Read more »
I`ll have to agree with Cat and DiG on this one. There are people who like this new dark and bloody take on the character and I respect that, but frankly I feel that such stories are missing the point of the character. The great thing about Wolverine is that he has all the makings of the perfect killer, but he resents it. In fact, in Larry Hama run he says that himself, several times over. He`s not a murderer, merely a protector and sometimes a vigilante – in his own way admittedly, but he does not slaughter and especially… Read more »
[quote]The fact that he knows this and still shoulders the blame actually make him more endearing. He’s aware a good portion of his actions weren’t his own, yet he still wishes to make amends. That shows real strength of character. On the flipside of that, Wolverine is not really the nicest fellow. He’s killed thousands upon thousands of people in his life time. A great deal of them as a superhero. Whereas characters like Cyclops and Spider-Man will capture a henchman and turn them over to the police, Wolverine cuts through most of them with almost no regard for human… Read more »
While this is an enjoyable conversation that has sprung up thanks to the comments of Mr. Way and everyone is making good points as to their opinion about the character, the way the perceive him and how it is felt that the character should be written. I will however throw my two cents into this. To me, Wolverine would cross the line between killing because as pointed out, he’s stated that no one else should. Not only is this true but it is known. Every character in the Marvel universe knows this from Fury to the X-Men to the Avengers.… Read more »
Huh. Did not know number 3.
I wish Daniel Way to be feared to go outside because of angry fans. he deserves it. As Way was able to ignore some of Logan past, I hope it goes the same for his Wolverine Origins in the future.
It really was a big deal in the 1980s. When Wolverine killed the guard in the Savage Land, everybody was shocked. I mean, superheroes don’t kill! It was awesome! Here is a real frickin’ soldier showing these naive superheroes what you really have to do in war. And then the Hellfire club sequence cemented Wolverine as the coolest hero we had ever seen. He didn’t just talk the talk, he walked the walk. But the entire Dark Phoenix debacle and controversy brought this whole killing thing to the fore. And Shooter made these papal proclamations. Looking back some 25 years… Read more »
He already has done so in the last issue.
I’ll be honest and say I’m starting to just ignore Way. If I do not acknowledge what he is doing to my favourite Character, then it is not happening. Wolverine is NOT a war Criminal, any more than Nick Fury is. Maybe yes from his time in the cold war, but not WW2.
Honestly, the sooner they recon this the better.
(N.B. This is simply my personal opinion, and I respect the rights of those who enjoy Origins to do so, providing they respect my right to hate it).
True. He was a puppet. But he was a puppet when he was captured and programed millions of times before. This just wasn’t a story exclusive to Origins either. During the Weapon Plus saga, we caught glimpses of Weapon X controlling Logan to wipe out villages and torture criminals constantly. Creed has always mocked Logan for being “similar” to him, now we know why he always teases him. The relationship between Creed and Logan makes a lot more sense because of Origins existence. But this doesn’t necessarily make Logan identical to Creed, it just means they had to mind control… Read more »
Oop, I completely missed your post before the latest one, roleplay. There’s logic in your words. I hadn’t considered that playing up the darkness in the character’s old life was a way to contrast how and why he could be an honorable samurai later in life. While I hadn’t considered it previously, I very much agree.
Words from last DiG post: “Ace, the reason you will see so many people adding disclaimers to their comments is that discussions about ‘Wolverine: Origins’ nearly created several flame wars here in the past. So those who are not fans of the series have tried to couch their criticism as personal opinion, not fact. And those who do like the series now try to avoid the charge that Origins-haters are closed-minded.” I couldn’t agree more with these words. In my honest opinion, I don’t think Way is revealing some past but instead he’s creating a new one and therefore disrespecting… Read more »
Well said, roleplay. And may I just add that even if Logan has done some morally questionable things under the control of Romulus, Weapon X, etc… he’s nowhere near the sort of beast Creed is. Creed is a rapist, a pedophile, and a cannibal. Wolverine may have tortured, he may have murdered, but Sabretooth did all that and the aforementioned acts. And he did so willing and with a smile on his face.
I feel like I’ve discovered Logan just at the wrong time – in the middle of Way’s vision of him, something I cannot read and enjoy. This storyline just bumms me out and leaves me feeling hollow. I agree with Cat and just want to pretend “Origins and Endings” and ‘Origins” doesn’t exist, but Ace’s very literate devil’s advocate post is certainly true in that ignoring it won’t make it any less of Marvel’s canon on the character now. Frankly, I dislike the idea that Wolverine has been nothing more than a jacked-around, mind-controlled thug for the majority of his… Read more »
Ace, the reason you will see so many people adding disclaimers to their comments is that discussions about ‘Wolverine: Origins’ nearly created several flame wars here in the past. So those who are not fans of the series have tried to couch their criticism as personal opinion, not fact. And those who do like the series now try to avoid the charge that Origins-haters are closed-minded. Now watch my comments start a brand new war. ;) As for me, I started reading Wolverine in the early Claremont-Byrne days so I have lived through and endured every phase of Wolverine’s character… Read more »
Perfectly understandable. I’ve gotten into arguments with friends in the past over mistaken intent. When I state something, I very very rarely state it as absolute fact. I generally say “I believe…”, “It is my opinion that…”, “My feeling is…”, etc. Not speaking of anyone here on this site or this community, but there are people in the world who feel that when you state something that you feel you are absolutely right and they are absolutely wrong. As one would expect that misconception offends them. I try to never speak in absolutes, as I am as fallible as any… Read more »
WOW…this has become a riveting discussion with such depth of civilly written debate on both sides of the coin,and such conjecture of character, background, and possibilities. I would like to see this continue. I agree that I was taken aback by the huge number of deaths noted at the end of “Agent of SHEILD,” but they were sort of dismissed as bad guys who deserved it, and simply a problem for Nick Fury to keep word about Logan’s furious killing spree out of the media. It seemed extreme, but this may explain why there are more and more killings at… Read more »
This conversation has really grown, it seems I have a lot to reply to. I’d first like to say this has been an enlightening discussion, I greatly enjoy reading alternate perspectives. WOW…this has become a riveting discussion with such depth of civilly written debate on both sides of the coin,and such conjecture of character, background, and possibilities. I would like to see this continue. I couldn’t agree more, Pamela. This is why this community is such a wonderful place to frequent. Is it time to build the character back up and have him atone for everything that he just realized… Read more »
As I read through this wonderful discussion (and it really is an example of what I was hoping this site would become), it occurs to me that Wolverine’s story can viewed in several different ways. And perhaps, depending upon our moods, can be viewed as a mixture of them all. 1) There is a definitive story of Wolverine’s life and we are digesting portions of it over time, similar to the 300 issues of ‘Cerebus’ or the 100 issues of ‘100 Bullets’. In a sense this is especially true for Wolverine, if you perceive the story from the future, instead… Read more »
I am quite curious as to how Claremont will write Wolverine in X-Men Forever, after all these many ‘incarnations’ of the character.