I think Romulus has the ability to control others like he suggested that Daken had. I wonder if Romulus is John Howelet II, the brother that was seen in Wolverine the End?

Yes, it’s small and slightly ridiculous to mention, but I think it’s more significant than not.

And I agree with DF on that last point. Having Logan brainwashed for a few months is a lot different than turning his whole life into a super-long brainwashing trip.

Yeh remember millars run on enemy of the state where wolverine was mind controlled that didnt sell lots of copies or be popular…. oh wait hang on it did!

The difference between the Millar arc and Origins is that the Millar’s arc was on the purpose to make Wolverine battle others super heroes, and that’s good, I like much more when Wolverine battles people with special powers rather than an army of Hydra, and more important, it lasted few months (in Logan’s life) but Origins is about all his life, and every twist of the book is because of brainwashing and/or Romulus.

okay im sorry I couldnt let this go

Yeh remember millars run on enemy of the state where wolverine was mind controlled that didnt sell lots of copies or be popular…. oh wait hang on it did!

I was the one who ‘generalised’, not Gabe0 I simply meant old fans as ones who had been reading longer then say last decade.

BTW its pretty obvious that wolverine was mind controlled/tortured/balckmailed/brainwashed/alloftheabove when he did any/most of the bad things. This is obvious because he was a godo person when he was a youth and he is a good person now having got all his memories back. meaning certain events sandwhiched in the middle must have had an explanation that was such.

Also the killing people after the war was ambigous soldiers have been left in awkard binds and had to take the initiative only to get it later.

He is not Pastor Logan hes not reverend Logan he can have done some bad things and still be a bad person without it being a continuity error we have all done things we regret and he has had a longer more violent life with which to make mistakes.

Way’s left it ambiguous as to how much of what he has done over the years was or wasnt his fault leaving that air of mystery that you all cry to sleep over apparently not having anymore.

The story dynamic is great “how responsible am I” “how many of those atrocities were caused by romulous or wolverine” Is it a bit of both?

I cant wait for the next issue of wolverine origins. Also you guys are hardly consistent Digg for example doesnt like origins yet tolerates that crappy old man logan story and seems to like the shit-heap that is 1985.

We have to come to a point where we the fans have to say I dont own [insert character here]. and just get over ourselves, that being said Digg actually does give reasoned criticisims and justifications more then most of you or anyone on the marvel boards.

I have posted my opinion here for a long time. DIG was the one who liked some of the thoughts I was posting and asked me to write up a review on a personal level. I knew I would get some shit for it , and I don’t mind being a minority on here. I was kind expecting it.

It feels like you are taking my words on a personal level. That kind of annoys me, but I won’t elaborate more here because it’s DIG’s site. So if you feel like chatting some more about generalization feel free to email me @ gabrielzero@animemusucvideos.org

But don’t tell me what to do DF, my opinion is my own and yours is one that I don’t agree with. Get over it.

Let’s talk about the book now. In every introduction of Origins, we can read “After repeated brainwashing, torture and reprogramming…” and I think I finally begun to understand that what we see in Origins, the flashsbacks, are the bits when Wolverine was under someonelse control. it’s the only possibility that comes in my mind to not create a conflict between all previous stories and Origins.

So if it’s the case, I still have a problem with Daniel Way, If this is really the case, I think D Way lacks of creativity, it look likes more a the story of Romulus than the story of Wolverine, and no one cares about Romulus. And if people may argue about this and reply that it’s about Wolverine, then I say: who wants to read a story where the main character is brainwashed? In other words, we read a story of a character has no personality and I don’t think that’s what the readers want.

Plus, it look likes too that Logan wasn’t always brainwashed when he commited those crimes, was he brainwashed when he helped to create Nuke? I don’t have the answer but from what I read from the earlier issues of Origins, the answer seems to be no. the other thing I didn’t like at all was when Logan kills(issue 27) the remaining prisoners of wars just to get rid of the situation, It’s not Logan at all.

As for Gabriel Zero, please don’t generalize when you talk about old fans. I don’t know what’s your definition of old fans, but I’m born in 1983 and I don’t consider myself “old” and I’m sure there are younger readers that don’t like Origins either. It’s not because of age, it’s because it doesn’t respect the logic of the character and its chronology.

I dont think its meant the romulous has controlled every second of his life and every encounter he had. I think wolverine proabably escaped his clutches for a few years at a time but is always drawn back in after each of the failiures you just mentioned romulous just prods pushes and excacerbates the bad things in logans life and uses him as tool we he is able to/can. I however will admit to not reading much of old wolverine stories but every previous version old school fans cry about missing doesnt sound as appealing as the current to me. Romulous isnt in complete control he lost Daeken to wolverine and was caught with his pants down due to house of M which has finally given wolverine enough time and memories in one go to actually be able to break free.

We dont know how many of those bad things he did which were contradictary to his undebated goodness were caused by blackmail memory wipes and pyschichs even as far as then.

He could have been a hero in world war two and then a reluctant brainwashed bad guy for some of it which even then had a silver lining as he allowed cap and bucky to escape.